Sisyphus Shrugged - religious community in Dover to Pat Robertson: God don't play that.

10:37 am November 13th, 2005




			Sisyphus Shrugged - religious community in Dover to Pat Robertson: God don't play that. Lasciate ogni speranza and put your feet up.

jmhm


	religious community in Dover to Pat Robertson: God don't play that.
	as you may recall, earlier in the week the "Reverend" Pat Robertson (who has, in the past, channeled God's endorsement of assassination, terrorism, tax fraud, brutal tyranny and George W. Bush) announced that the people of Dover, PA have nullified the noachide covenant within their borders by voting for school board members who think it's not inconsistent with a belief in a supreme being to try and figure out how the world works. via Jim, the faith community and some of the school board members whose election shattered 2,000 years of grace (bet Jesus is all kinds of pissed that He suffered, died and was buried for no lasting benefit) share their thoughts Edgar Reed, pastor at Salem Lutheran Church in Dover, said he wasn't surprised to hear that sentiment from Robertson, whom he called a "war monger" who is out of touch with mainstream Christians. "He's out to stir trouble up," Reed said, adding that he hoped people would ignore the comments. "I don't think God has left Dover. In fact, I think (God) is more present now than he was when this all started because people talk about him more." Ken McCoy, pastor at Mountain Grove Chapel in Dover Township, said Robertson's depiction of a vengeful God who abandons his followers is warped. "The New Testament tells us that we live under grace now," he said. "God will never ... abandon us, and I think Mr. Robertson knows that." Later in the day, Robertson responded after media outlets began reporting on his comments. In a statement released by CBN, Robertson said, "I was simply stating that our spiritual actions have consequences and it's high time we started recognizing it. God is tolerant and loving, but we can't keep sticking our finger in his eye forever. If they have future problems in Dover, I recommend they call on Charles Darwin ... maybe he can help them." Several pastors at churches in Dover said Thursday they did not want to comment about the issue. However, two newly elected school board members criticized Robertson's comments. Larry Gurreri, a newly elected Dover Area school board member, said he will include Robertson in his prayers. He said Robertson's comments were desperate and radical. "This is a man of the cloth judging people and judging the whole town?" Gurreri said. "I would expect a whole lot better from someone in his position." Robertson owes the Dover community an apology, he said. "One person is going to judge me, and that's God," Gurreri said. Phil Herman, also new to the school board, said Robertson's comments were ridiculous. He also said intelligent design was not the only factor on voters' minds when they elected the new board. ... Dennis Hall, pastor at Friendship Community Church, said he worries that Robertson's comments will further discourage people who are already afraid of being judged when they go to church. "The greatest characteristic of God is his love for people," Hall said. "He took out his hate and retribution on Jesus on the cross." Hall said he is disappointed to hear Robertson making comments that might make people question God's love. "It makes me kind of sad," he said. "This is a good community, with good people on both sides of the issue." Mr. Robertson recently gave his own seal of approval to adulterous serially-married pro-choice gay rights supporter Rudy Giuliani, proving that in matters relating to the future electoral health of the Republican party, God has a healthy sense of humor. edit: I'm unscreening comments, because it seems to be holding up the discussion. Post away.

ahhhs. -- hmmm?


	Comments

	From: snuh	Date: November 13th, 2005 04:51 pm (UTC)		(linkie thing)

Don't forget the gaydar God blessed Pat Robinson with: (5.8MB WMV File).

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	From: dmlaenker	Date: November 13th, 2005 10:48 pm (UTC)		(linkie thing)

Robertson is evil, as we all know, and an incredible heretic, which you may or may not know but would probably come as a surprise to him even though it really shouldn't.

Did you know his congresscritter (and mine, as much as I tried to fight it) slipped a Don-Young-sized rider into last year's budget for a freeway interchange directly into his compound?

Virginia can't find the money to pay for the roads we need, and they're going to tear my European History teacher's house down to do this.

Why he couldn't just pay for it with the proceeds from his conflict diamond operations, I don't know. But what need has Pat Robertson for history that isn't in the Bible?

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	From: 33mhz	Date: November 14th, 2005 01:15 am (UTC)		(linkie thing)

"The greatest characteristic of God is his love for people," Hall said. "He took out his hate and retribution on Jesus on the cross."

What the hell? That sounds like irreligious snark, but it's coming from the pastor of a Quaker church.

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	From: syfr	Date: November 15th, 2005 01:53 am (UTC)		(linkie thing)

Quakers don't have pastors. One of the bigger things about the Society of Friends is that everyone is equal, to the point they have no clergy at all. (I only know this 'cuz I'm dating one....)

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	From: 33mhz	Date: November 15th, 2005 07:23 am (UTC)		(linkie thing)

ah, k. I just assumed because I saw the word "friend" in there.

I've gotten a couple of other (at the present time screened) comments that are wondering why I think it sounds irreligious. I'm an atheist myself, so I wasn't offended or anything.

My surprise is mainly at the phrasing rather than the actual content of the statement, especially the "taking out on" bit. It seems to be a dysphemistic way of putting the standard "he died for our sins" bit.

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	From: orangemike	Date: November 15th, 2005 07:01 pm (UTC)		(linkie thing)

Yup, it's a miserable way of stating a central tenet of the faith. But as has been pointed out, we Friends aren't much for "pastors"!

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	From: commodorified	Date: November 16th, 2005 10:48 pm (UTC)		(linkie thing)

*via making light*

Off the top of my head, I'd say somebody got crowded for a quote and didn't have time to put it as gracefully as he'd have liked.

Oh, Pat. Jesus loves you, but the rest of us think you're an asshole.

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	From: jmhm	Date: November 17th, 2005 02:58 am (UTC)		(linkie thing)

I've heard that

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From: jlparsifal	Date: November 20th, 2005 06:45 pm (UTC)		(linkie thing)
Yes indeedy

Must say, this was nice to find. Linked here from a link on Invisible Library. On the subject of Pat: I am a Christian, but I am not a fundamentalist, and though I don't know if what Robertson says is technically heretical or not, I know it is not the action of a man asking himself 'What would Jesus do?'
This is a further corruption of the term 'Christian' by people who Dr. Cornell West refers to as 'Constantinian Christians' and who I, personally, like to call Yahwehists. Because they regard Power as the Ultimate Virtue, when anyone who believes in Christ's divinity must realize that it is really Sacrifice. They ask themselves 'What would Yahweh do?' and, from what I know, that is not the way it works. Paraphrasing Bill Maher, "They call themselves Christians but they act more like Jews."
Fundamentalism, more than nuclear proliferation, is the most dangerous thing in the world.
Thanks for the post.
J.

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	From: jmhm	Date: December 7th, 2005 04:00 pm (UTC)		(linkie thing)
	Re: Yes indeedy

As I understand judaism, it's quite firm on the subject of what an individual owes to the community and his/her fellows, so I don't think it's entirely fair to cherrypick the roman interpretation of the pre-grace aspect of christian tradition as representative of the jewish tradition that Paul was rejecting to appeal to Constatine on the jews.

JMO.

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	From: azurelunatic	Date: November 15th, 2005 07:45 am (UTC)		(linkie thing)

And when everyone is moved to speak in Meeting at once, things can get intense.

There are, on the other hand, community leaders.

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From: (Anonymous)	Date: November 16th, 2005 07:01 pm (UTC)		(linkie thing)

"Quakers don't have pastors."

Actually, some do. There are programmed and unprogrammed Meetings, and the programmed meetings do indeed have pastors.

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	From: interactiveleaf	Date: November 15th, 2005 07:03 am (UTC)		(linkie thing)

You think it sounds irreligious? It's exactly how I read the Bible.

The death of Jesus was the shift from the vindictive, jealous, flood- and brimstone-happy god of the OT to the loving, merciful, non-killing-people god of the NT. Jesus died for your sins--therefore god isn't obliged to punish you for your sins anymore. There need be no more retribution--it's all been meted out, before you were ever born.

Why do you think it sounds irreligious?

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From: (Anonymous)	Date: November 15th, 2005 07:05 am (UTC)		(linkie thing)
Himself to Himself to Himself

"The greatest characteristic of God is his love for people," Hall said. "He took out his hate and retribution on Jesus on the cross."

Don't worry that this sounds sick and perverted. After all, Jesus and God were one. So what you have is God taking out his hate and retribution on himself, to appease himself, of his own anger, at his own creation.

See? Makes perfect sense.

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From: (Anonymous)	Date: November 15th, 2005 03:52 pm (UTC)		(linkie thing)
friendship church

friendship church is part of the Church of God, general Conference. a quaker/friend would never say that sort of thing.

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	From: davetrow	Date: November 15th, 2005 06:05 pm (UTC)		(linkie thing)
	Quakers

There are actually four main branches of Quakerism today, and two of them (Pastoral Friends and Evangelical Friends) are pastoral: they hold Meetings with ministers and an order of worship that in some cases is much like that of mainline Protestantism. The majority of Quakers in the world today are Evangelical, due to rapid growth in Africa.

The other two branches (Liberal and Conservative) of Quakerism are the ones most people in the U.S. think of when they hear "Quaker," and they indeed practice what's variously called "unprogrammed," "silent," or "waiting" worship. The primary difference between Liberal and Conservative Quakerism (as far as this nascent Christ-centered Liberal Quaker can see) is that CQ is necessarily Christian, while the Liberal branch welcomes people of all faith traditions. (I should add the Conservative Quakers recognize the validity of other spiritual paths, but they do not like to mix them with their own. A brief description of the four main branches of Quakerism can be found here if anyone is interested.)

But regardless of what branch a Quaker is from, I much doubt that any would describe the Passion as satifying God's "hate and retribution." And certainly they would repudiate Pat Robertson as apostate (even if they were too polite to use that term). For Quakers, the Light of Christ (also called the Inward Light, the Inward Seed, and many other terms) dwells in everyone, and from their beginning 350 years ago they have believed that this Light was sufficient for salvation even in those who had never heard of Christ. (Some, like me, believe it's even sufficient in those who hear the Christian message but remain in their own faith tradition--or none--for reasons perhaps known only to God.)

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